Mormons and the Trinity

Back to the issue of the Trinity: here are some citations from the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants which teach that God is not a man, and that the Trinity is true. 

1. "The Testimony of Three Witnesses" at the front of the Book of Mormon ends with the statement: And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen. 

2. 2 Nephi 11:7 makes the point that Jesus is God: For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time. 

3. 2 Nephi 26:12 says Jesus is the Eternal God: And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God.

4. Another Trinitarian statement is 2 Nephi 31:21: And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. 

5. Here's a bit convoluted Trinitarian statement, which might be a good one to ask to be explained [comment - who is it that calls the father and son one person?]. Mosiah 15:1-5: And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. And because he dwelleth in flesh, he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son - The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and the Son - And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people. 

6. Another one where they call the Son the Father: Mosiah 16:15: Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father.

7. Mormons preach multitudes of gods, even that they become one. But Alma 11:28 says, Now Zeezrom said, Is there more than one God? And he answered, No.

8. Is God eternal or did He start as a man as LDS teach now? Is the son the father? Alma 11:38-39: Now Zeezrom saith agian unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father? And Amulek said unto him: yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 

9. Alma 11:44: Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. 

10. Is God man or spirit? Alma 18: 24: And Ammon began to speak unto him with boldness, and said unto him: Believest thou that there is a God? And he answered, and said unto him: I do not know what that meaneth. And then Ammon said: Believest thou that there is a Great Spirit? And he said, Yea. And Ammon said: This is God. 

11. Is God Spirit? Alma 22:9-11: And the king said: Is God that Great Spirit that brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem? And Aaron said unto him: Yea, he is that Great Spirit, and he created all things both in heaven and in earth. Believest thou this? And he said: Yea, I believe that the Great Spirit created all things, and I desire that ye should tell me concerning all these things, and I will believe thy words. 

12. Again, is God a spirit? Alma 31:15: Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever. 

13. 3 Nephi 11:27 and 36 has the trinity: And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name: for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one.... And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and teh Holy Ghost are one. 

14. D&C 20:28: Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

15. D&C 68:8: ...baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 

16. D&C 93:3: I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one. 

As you can easily see while reading these quotes, when Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon he had a fairly orthodox theology.  It was only later, especially after settling in Nauvoo, that Smith denied the Trinity and began teaching the theology of a plurality of gods and other bizarre doctrines.  

This is just another example of the ever-changing teachings of the Mormon church.

The Purpose of this Blog

Some people seem to think that I need to debate Mormonism with them in comment sections. This blog is not for debating, rather it is for exposing Mormon teachings when compared to the teachings of true Christianity. To do so I give the actual citations from their “prophets,” authors and publications. So your arguments are with the citations, not with me.

I’m not a coward, puffed-up, egotistical, think I’m God, etc.  I don’t have the time to debate people trying to defend the indefensible, satanic-inspired, anti-God teachings of the LDS.

My email is available on my profile page as well as my general apologetics blog, “The Watchman’s Bagpipes.” If you want clarification on something or want more information on the LDS, please feel free to communicate with me as long as you aren’t trying to debate me.

Non-debating comments which aren’t full of ad hominem attacks, etc, are also welcome.

Salvation Only Through Joe Smith?!?

Mormon Doctrine, p. 471; “If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” 

 

Bruce McConkie

So, according to the LDS, our salvation rests with Joseph Smith? And unless you are a member of the LDS you cannot be saved?

Very interesting lie straight from Satan. I've responded to this claim seven years ago but there is nothing wrong with repeating the truth.

The New Testament tells a different, and contradictory story where no one is saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ. Look up the passages if you do not believe me:

Luke 8-9

John 1:12

John 3:16-17

John 3:36

John 5:24

John 14:6

John 20:31

Act 4:12

Romans 5:8

Romans 6:23

Romans 10:9

Galatians 2:16

Galatians 2:20

Ephesians 2:8-9

1 Timothy 2:5-6

And other passages say that salvation is ONLY through Jesus Christ and not through a mere man who has blasphemed the name of God.

Another False Prophecy From Mormonism

2nd Nephi 10:19:

Wherefore, I will consecrate this land unto thy seed, and them who shall be numbered among thy seed, forever, for the land of their inheritance; for it is a choice land, saith God unto me, above all other lands, wherefore I will have all men that dwell thereon that they shall worship me, saith God.

This was supposedly ca.570 BC and yet the evidence is that not all who dwell in Mormon lands worship God.

H/T: Life After Ministry.

A Sampling of LDS Errors and Falsehoods in Their Doctrines

I have been so busy these past few months that I haven’t had a chance to write up any articles. SO, today’s post will be one of those with links to a site which exposes the false teachings of Mormonism—Life After Ministry.  Lots of stuff to think about if you are a Mormon and want to know the TRUE Jesus and TRUE God and not the fake Mormon ones.

BoM: God Told Jaredites to Take Fish on Boat. Which makes no sense at all!

LDS Calls Catholics Fellow Christians. Which is pretty bizarre since they’ve historically called them the “whore of the earth.”

Please find in the Bible where baptism is mandatory for salvation, as stated by Orson Pratt.

Church Stands or Falls with Joseph Smith. There are myriads of evidences to prove Smith was a false prophet, much of such evidence can be found in articles on my blog!.

What Do Mormons Think of the Virgin Mary?  I address this issue here on my blog, either by my own articles or links to others. I don’t know how they can call her a virgin since their man-god had sex with her to make a body for Jesus to inhabit.

Four Contradictions in One BoM Verse. Oh what tangled webs we weave…

Why Does the LDS Church Use the Bible? After all, if it is mistranslated why bother with it?

LDS Church Contradicts Book of Mormon. This is one I never thought of, yet it is another of their BOM verses which prove them to be liars.

History v. Book of Mormon. So if actual history contradicts the BOM, doesn’t that PROVE the BOM to be a fraud?

BoM 600 BC: Angel Asked Nephi if He Remembered the Twelve Apostles. Another problem with the BOM and actual history.

Mormons Trust a Plagiarizing God Who Lies. LDS really should realize the fraudulent nature of their teachings.

Logic Proves the Trinity

This exercise in logic is to determine the truthfulness or falseness of the conclusions in the following five syllogisms. The approach to this exercise is to assume that the first premise in each syllogism is true. Sometimes scripture will be given as evidence to demonstrate the veracity of the first premise in each syllogism, regardless of the assumption given. The next step will be to use scripture to demonstrate whether or not the second premise of each syllogism is true. By the rules of logic, if the second premise is false, the conclusion must be false; but if the second premise is true, the conclusion must be true also. (The sixth item is only a hypothesis, and so does not need to be true to start with - it must be proven by scripture to be either true or false). The only reference source used is the Holy Bible, and I will just cite the verses and let you look them up.  Okay, here are my syllogisms. Are you ready to review the passages?

Syllogism Number 1

Premise: Personal attributes define a person. (assumed)

Premise: The Holy Spirit has personal attributes.

1. Personal pronoun assigned (he or I): John 16:8, 13; Acts 13:2; many others

2. Communicates: John 16: 8, 13, Acts 13:2: as above

3. Has learned: John 16:13

4. Consoles/comforts: John 16:17; Acts 9:31

5. Helps us in our weakness: Romans 8:26

6. Forbids: Acts 16:6,7

7. Can be lied to: Acts 5:3

8. Can be grieved: Eph. 4:30

9. Can be insulted: Heb. 10:29

10. Has a will: 1 Cor. 12:11.

11. Bears witness: Rom. 8:16

12. Makes intercession: Rom. 8:26, 27

13. Has a mind: Rom. 8:27

14. He lives in you. Rom. 8:9

15. He teaches: John. 14:26; John. 16:13-14; 1 Cor. 2:13

16. He loves. Rom. 15:30

17. He is vexed. Isaiah 63:10

18. He hears. John. 16:13

19. He knows the future. Acts 21:11

20. He has knowledge: Isaiah 11:2; 1 Cor. 2:10-11

21. He calls to service. Acts 13:4

Conclusion: The Holy Spirit is a person.

Syllogism Number 2

Premise: There is only one God.

1. Deut. 6:4

2. Deut. 32:39

3. Psalm 86:10

4. Isaiah 37:16, 20

5. Isaiah 43:10b-11

6. Is. 44:6, 8

7. Is. 45:5, 21,22

8. Is. 46:9

9. Jer. 10:10

10. Mark 12:29, 32

11. John 17:3

12. 1 Cor. 8:6

13. Eph. 4:6

14. 1 Tim. 2:5

15. Jas. 2:19

Premise: There are three Persons called God.

1. The Father is called God.

a. Ps. 68:5

b. Mal. 2:10

c. Mat. 11:25

d. John 8:41

e. Rom. 1:7

f. Rom. 8: 15-17

g. Rom. 15:6

h. 1 Cor. 1:3

i. 1 Cor. 8:6

j. Gal. 1:1-4

k. Gal 3:26: to be his children, he must be our father

l. Gal. 4:6

m. Php. 4:20

n. 1 Thes. 1:1

o. 1 Thes. 3:11, 13

p. Titus 1:4

q. 1 Pet. 1:2,3

r. 2 Pet. 1:17

2. The Son is called God.

a. Is. 9:6

b. Mat. 1:23

c. Mk. 2:5-7

d. John 1:1

e. John 8:56-59: compare with Exodus 3:14 where God says His name is I AM. vs. 59 demonstrates that the Jews knew what Jesus meant.

f. John 10:30-33

g. John 20:28-29

h. Rom. 9:5.

i. Php. 2:6-8

j. Col. 2:9

k. Tit. 2:13

l. Heb. 1:8-10

m. Acts 2:30-32, 10:40 and 17:30-31, 1 Thes. 1:10, 1 Pet. 1:21 say God raised Jesus from the dead vs. John 2:19-22 where Jesus said He would raise himself. This implies he is called God.

n. He receives worship, but men or angels can't. This implies he is God. Matt. 2:11, 8:2, 9:18, 14:33, 15:25, 28:9,17; Lk. 24:52; John 9:38; Acts 10:25, 26; Php. 2:10; Rev. 19:10, 22:8,9

3. The Holy Spirit is called God.

a. Acts 5:3,4: Peter said Ananias lied to the Holy Ghost, then said it was God he lied to.

b. II Cor. 3. This chapter discusses the Spirit and his activities, and in verses 16, and 17 we find that the Lord (God) 'is that Spirit'.

c. Is. 6:8,9 God (Jehovah) is talking to Isaiah. In Acts 28:25, 26 Paul refers to that passage in Isaiah and says it was the Holy Spirit that was talking!

d. Ex. 17:2 Moses says that Israel is tempting God (Jehovah). In Hebrews 3:7-9 it says the Holy Spirit was the one being tempted.

e. Jer. 31:33 states God (Jehovah) is talking. Hebrews 10:15-17 refers to this passage and states the Holy Spirit is talking. The individual talking is making a covenant with Israel! Are two making the covenant?

f. 1 Cor. 3:16 says we are the temple of God. 1 Cor. 6:19 says we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Temples are for gods.

g. 1 Pet. 3:18 says the Holy Spirit raised Christ. Compare with above that says God raised Christ.

Conclusion: The three Persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - are the one God.

Syllogism Number 3

Premise: There is no Savior except God.

1. Is. 43:11: I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior

2. Hos. 13:4: I am the LORD thy God…there is no savior beside me

Premise: There are two persons called the Savior

a. God is called the Savior

1. 2 Sam. 22:47

2. 1 Chron. 16:35

3. Ps. 18:46; 24:5; 25:5; 27:9; 38:22; 42:5; 42:11; 43:5; 65:5; 68:19; 79:9; 85:4; 89:26

4. Isa. 17:10; 43:3; 45:15; 45:21; 49:26; 60:16

5. Jer. 14:8

6. Mic. 7:7

7. Hab. 3:18

8. Lk. 1:47

9. 1 Tim. 1:1; 2:3;

10. Tit. 1:3; 2:13; 3:4

11. Jude 1:25

b. Jesus is called the Savior.

1. Lk. 2:11

2. John 4:42

3. Acts 5:31; 13:23

4. Eph. 5:23

5. Php. 3:20

6. 2 Tim. 1:10

7. Titus 1:4; 2:13; 3:6 (Titus calls both Jesus and God the Savior)

8. 2 Pet. 1:1; 1:11; 2:20; 3:2; 3:18

9. 1 John 4:14

Conclusion: Jesus and God are the one Savior, i.e. Jesus is God.

Syllogism Number 4

Premise: There is only one creator. (assumed)

Premise: There are two persons called the creator.

a. God is called the Creator.

1. Gen. 1:1

2. Gen. 14:22

3. Job 38

4. Is. 37:16

5. Is. 44:24

6. Is. 45:18

7. Is. 48:13

8. Jer. 32:17

9. Acts 17:24

10. 1 Cor. 8:6

11. Rev. 4:11

b. Jesus is called the Creator.

1. John 1:3, 10

2. 1 Cor. 8:6

3. Col. 1:16-17

Conclusion: Jesus and God are the one Creator, i.e., Jesus is God

Syllogism Number 5

Premise: There can be only one "First and Last". (If there were more, who would be the first "First" and who would be the last "Last"?)

Premise: There are two persons called "the First and the Last".

a. God is called "the First and the Last".

b. Jesus is called "the First and the Last".

Argument: Revelation 1:7 says the one who is coming is the one who is pierced (Jesus). Verse 8 says the one who is coming is the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending" and it quotes the "Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (the Lord Almighty is God). Are two coming? Verse 11 says the one speaking to John was "Alpha and Omega, the first and the last", and the conversation continues at verse 17 where the person talking to John says, "I am the first and the last; I am he that liveth, and was dead [who has to be Jesus]; and behold I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." Chapter 2:8 again identifies the speaker as "the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive". Chapter 22:12, 13 again has this person calling himself "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last", and verse 16 identifies this person as Jesus. Now, take this and compare it to information from Isaiah 43:10 and 48:12,13. In 43:10 God says, "Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." This is sort of like saying "I am the first and the last". In 48:12,13 God actually says, "I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth..." So God is using the same identity that Jesus uses in Revelation, and further identifies himself as the one who "laid the foundation", i.e. made the creation. Do we then have two "Alpha and Omega" and two "first and last"?

Conclusion: Jesus and God are the one "First and Last", i.e., Jesus is God.

Hypothesis: God is a multiple personality.

Evidences:

1. Genesis 1:1. The Hebrew word for God here is Elohim. It is a plural word and is repeated 32 times in this chapter; each time it is followed by a singular verb. Why would Moses choose a plural word for God, especially with a singular verb, if that wasn't what Moses meant?

2. Gen. 1:26, 27. God says, “Let us make...in our image, after our likeness.” Then it says God (Elohim) created man in “his own image,” singular. Who is this plurality?

3. Hebrew uses two words meaning “one.” Yachid means absolute mathematical oneness (an example is Gen 22:2 when God tells Abraham to take his “only son”). Echad means unity or united one. Echad is used in Gen. 1:5 with the evening and morning as one day, and in Gen 2:24 where a man and a woman become one flesh. In Deut. 6:4 the word used to describe “one Lord” is Echad - united one. It is obvious the writer meant more than one person in God.

4. Matt. 28:19. The Greek word used for name (onoma) is singular, and there are definite articles (the) before Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, emphasizing distinct persons. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all have one name.

5. Trinity is implied in Luke 1:35; Mat. 3:16, 17; 2 Cor.13:14; John 14:26; and John 15:26.

Conclusion: God is indeed a multiple personality.

Well, there you have it. I believe it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that God is a Trinity.