Mormons and the Trinity

Back to the issue of the Trinity: here are some citations from the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants which teach that God is not a man, and that the Trinity is true. 

1. "The Testimony of Three Witnesses" at the front of the Book of Mormon ends with the statement: And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen. 

2. 2 Nephi 11:7 makes the point that Jesus is God: For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time. 

3. 2 Nephi 26:12 says Jesus is the Eternal God: And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God.

4. Another Trinitarian statement is 2 Nephi 31:21: And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. 

5. Here's a bit convoluted Trinitarian statement, which might be a good one to ask to be explained [comment - who is it that calls the father and son one person?]. Mosiah 15:1-5: And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. And because he dwelleth in flesh, he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son - The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and the Son - And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people. 

6. Another one where they call the Son the Father: Mosiah 16:15: Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father.

7. Mormons preach multitudes of gods, even that they become one. But Alma 11:28 says, Now Zeezrom said, Is there more than one God? And he answered, No.

8. Is God eternal or did He start as a man as LDS teach now? Is the son the father? Alma 11:38-39: Now Zeezrom saith agian unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father? And Amulek said unto him: yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 

9. Alma 11:44: Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. 

10. Is God man or spirit? Alma 18: 24: And Ammon began to speak unto him with boldness, and said unto him: Believest thou that there is a God? And he answered, and said unto him: I do not know what that meaneth. And then Ammon said: Believest thou that there is a Great Spirit? And he said, Yea. And Ammon said: This is God. 

11. Is God Spirit? Alma 22:9-11: And the king said: Is God that Great Spirit that brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem? And Aaron said unto him: Yea, he is that Great Spirit, and he created all things both in heaven and in earth. Believest thou this? And he said: Yea, I believe that the Great Spirit created all things, and I desire that ye should tell me concerning all these things, and I will believe thy words. 

12. Again, is God a spirit? Alma 31:15: Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever. 

13. 3 Nephi 11:27 and 36 has the trinity: And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name: for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one.... And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and teh Holy Ghost are one. 

14. D&C 20:28: Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

15. D&C 68:8: ...baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 

16. D&C 93:3: I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one. 

As you can easily see while reading these quotes, when Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon he had a fairly orthodox theology.  It was only later, especially after settling in Nauvoo, that Smith denied the Trinity and began teaching the theology of a plurality of gods and other bizarre doctrines.  

This is just another example of the ever-changing teachings of the Mormon church.

A Sampling of LDS Errors and Falsehoods in Their Doctrines

I have been so busy these past few months that I haven’t had a chance to write up any articles. SO, today’s post will be one of those with links to a site which exposes the false teachings of Mormonism—Life After Ministry.  Lots of stuff to think about if you are a Mormon and want to know the TRUE Jesus and TRUE God and not the fake Mormon ones.

BoM: God Told Jaredites to Take Fish on Boat. Which makes no sense at all!

LDS Calls Catholics Fellow Christians. Which is pretty bizarre since they’ve historically called them the “whore of the earth.”

Please find in the Bible where baptism is mandatory for salvation, as stated by Orson Pratt.

Church Stands or Falls with Joseph Smith. There are myriads of evidences to prove Smith was a false prophet, much of such evidence can be found in articles on my blog!.

What Do Mormons Think of the Virgin Mary?  I address this issue here on my blog, either by my own articles or links to others. I don’t know how they can call her a virgin since their man-god had sex with her to make a body for Jesus to inhabit.

Four Contradictions in One BoM Verse. Oh what tangled webs we weave…

Why Does the LDS Church Use the Bible? After all, if it is mistranslated why bother with it?

LDS Church Contradicts Book of Mormon. This is one I never thought of, yet it is another of their BOM verses which prove them to be liars.

History v. Book of Mormon. So if actual history contradicts the BOM, doesn’t that PROVE the BOM to be a fraud?

BoM 600 BC: Angel Asked Nephi if He Remembered the Twelve Apostles. Another problem with the BOM and actual history.

Mormons Trust a Plagiarizing God Who Lies. LDS really should realize the fraudulent nature of their teachings.

God Is NOT, Nor Ever Was, a Man

For I am God and not man, the Holy One among you.

Hosea 11:9b

The LDS says God was once a man and is now an exalted man. I guess they never read Hosea.

God Had a Father God?!?!

We were begotten by our Father in heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by still a more ancient Father ….

The Seer by Orson Pratt, p. 132 

This is one of those really absurd doctrines of the LDS. Everyone can become a god (as long as they are “temple” Mormons). According to the LDS, everyone on earth, and whoever has ever been on earth, are spiritual siblings begotten of the “god” over this earth. But our LDS god was originally a spirit child of another god on another planet, and ad infinitum. No beginning, just another god as far back as into eternity.

And LDS claims they are Christian?!?! Their “god” is nothing like the God of the Bible, the God not only of Christians but of every human being—not as a spiritual child waiting for a body to inhabit, but born of a man and woman and not existing until such time.

H/T Life After Ministry

An Agglomeration

I have read so many articles exposing the LDS for the false belief system that it is, that I decided it was time to share the links to some of the articles for my readers’ education. I’m more than happy to discuss any article in my links below. But first, how about a citation from LDS President Wilford Woodruff:

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place. (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff, pg.199.)

So let us test Woodruff’s claim and see how teachings, as noted in the articles linked to, really do lead people astray from the true God of the universe and the true Jesus Christ.

4 Reasons to Reject Restoration Claims. I think these are all excellent reasons to reject the claims.

Can anyone show me from Scripture where the LDS temples are anything like the Jewish temples, with the requirement to wear special garments which themselves keep changing over the years? Please show me from scripture and historical records where Christians had temples with the requirement for special “underwear.” 

One of my favorite books when researching Mormonism was 3,913 Changes in the Book of Mormon. Quite a think publication, but you can also read some on-line at the Utah Lighthouse Ministry. I find it difficult to believe that a book of gold plates was translated through a special seer stone in a hat under the special direction of God and still have thousands of changes from the original, God-directed manuscript!

Does the Mormon God have his own God? Too many LDS leaders taught that their God did indeed have a father God—including Joseph Smith himself. This is a totally unbiblical theology, as well as being totally illogical!!!

Life After Ministry blog is an outstanding source of teachings exposing the lies, the false teachings, false prophets, etc of the Latter-Day Saints. So I’m going to give more links to several articles from this site.

Racism was endemic in the LDS from the very beginning, as show by the many racist teachings in the Book of Mormon.

LDS Canon Still Contains Racist Doctrines. So don’t let the LDS say it being a mistake of the past, etc. My BIG question is, why are there blacks who are Mormons?!?

LDS Lies: ‘Negroes Markedly Inferior’. Well, the truth is far from that—Negroes are real humans with real talents/gifts of their own and not a bit inferior to “whites.”

The LDS claims that the Bible Shows “Racial Streams,” aka, Racism. But in order to understand the Bible that way they have to twist the meaning of Scripture.

As I have done before, I will remind the reader of book published by the LDS: Mormonism and the Negro, by John J. Stewart. One of the most racist books you will read.

One more item and I’ll quit for today: Conference Quote Reveals More Racist Lies and Contradictions.

Did the Mormon Gods Author Eternal Law?

 Excellent video explaining a problem with Mormon gods.

Think about what the gentleman says, and try to understand why the LDS doctrine is totally illogical and unbiblical

What Was the Real View of God Held By Early Christians? Part 2

The following is excerpted from Gospel Topics Essay: Are Mormons Christian? The article is written by Eric Johnson. This post is a continuation from my previous post.

As with the previous post, where in the original article Eric underlines the statements from the LDS essay, I will use italics instead. I will then put Eric’s rebuttal in blue except when he is quoting Scripture and then it will be in red. 

Latter-day Saints believe the melding of early Christian theology with Greek philosophy was a grave error. Chief among the doctrines lost in this process was the nature of the Godhead. The true nature of God the Father, His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost was restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith.

Which version of Joseph Smith’s teaching ought we to accept when it comes to the Godhead. The earlier version according to the Book of Mormon claimed:

*God was only one God (Alma 11:26-29; 2 Nephi 31:21; Mosiah 13:34, 15:1-4; Alma 11:44; 3 Nephi 11:27, 36; Mormon 7:7)

*God is unchangeable and eternal progression is impossible (Mos. 3:5; 3 Nephi 24:6; Mormon 9:9-10; Mormon 9:19; Moroni 7:22, 8:18)

*God is a spirit and could not be a glorified man (Alma 18:2-5, 18:24-28, 22:9-11)

Or should we accept the later version, as taught by Joseph Smith in the last couple years of his life?

*“I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods” (History of the Church 6:474).

*“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345).

*“We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345).

*“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22).

*“The idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man’s heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false” (D&C 130:3. Oddly enough, the Book of Mormon teaches the Lord does dwell in the hearts of the righteous. See Alma 34:36).

If any religion has gone through changes from the original, Mormonism is surely the candidate!

….

As a consequence, Latter-day Saints hold that God the Father is an embodied being, a belief consistent with the attributes ascribed to God by many early Christians. This Latter-day Saint belief differs from the post-New Testament creeds.

No supporting evidence is given to support such a claim.

Whatever the doctrinal differences that exist between the Latter-day Saints and members of other Christian religions, the roles Latter-day Saints ascribe to members of the Godhead largely correspond with the views of others in the Christian world. Latter-day Saints believe that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving, …

While Mormons might say their God is “all-loving” and point to the LDS rejection of hell, one must ask, Why did God kick one-third of his children out of pre-existence, never to be given the chance to have a body, based on one error in judgment (choosing Lucifer over Jesus)? While their version of hell (outer darkness) might be impossible to ever attain, a good number of souls will never have the chance to experience one of the three kingdoms.

Another premise used in arguing that Latter-day Saints are not Christians is that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not descend from the traditional line of today’s Christian churches: Latter-day Saints are not Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant. Latter-day Saints believe that by the ministering of angels to Joseph Smith priesthood authority to act in God’s name was returned or brought back to earth. This is the “restored,” not a “reformed,” church of Jesus Christ. The Latter-day Saint belief in a restored Christianity helps explain why so many Latter-day Saints, from the 1830s to the present, have converted from other Christian denominations. These converts did not, and do not, perceive themselves as leaving the Christian fold; they are simply grateful to learn about and become part of the restored Church of Jesus Christ, which they believe offers the fulness of the Lord’s gospel, a more complete and rich Christian church—spiritually, organizationally, and doctrinally.

While Mormons may say their church has never criticized other churches, this is just inaccurate. Check out this article to see a number of quotes where the leadership blasted Christianity.  To claim that your church is the “only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth” shows that all others are lacking in authority. Indeed, according to LDS leaders, the Mormon Church is, by itself, the only true church….

A Problem with a Man-God

God never made something out of nothing; it is not in the economy or law by which the worlds were, are, or will exist. There is an eternity before us, and it is full of matter; and if we but understand enough of the Lord and his ways we would say that he took of this matter and organized this earth from it.

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, pg.197

The Bible teaches us that the REAL God was all there was until HE created matter. Because God is omnipotent he created everything and nothing existed before God. The LDS god is not omnipotent and existed originally as a person on another planet and worked his way to heaven!

Science Fiction Theology

Things were first created spiritually; the Father actually begat the spirits, and they were brought forth and lived with him. Then he commenced the work of creating earthly tabernacles, precisely as he had been created in this flesh himself, by partaking of the coarse material that was organized and composed this earth,…consequently the tabernacles of his children were organized from the coarse materials of this earth.

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, pg.50

It’s hard for me to do anything but laugh at this unbiblical nonsense. Nothing in the Bible even hints that anything was created spiritually first. God did not give birth to spirits because he is not human nor did he have sexual relations with spiritual wives (as other LDS doctrines claim) to beget spiritual children.

The Mormon God Is a MAN

The great architect, manager and superintendent, controller and dictator who guides this work out of sight to our natural eyes. He lives on another world; he is in another state of existence; he has passed the ordeals we are now passing through; he has received an experience, has suffered and enjoyed, and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death of this mortality, for he has passed through the whole of it, and has received his crown and exaltation and holds the keys and the power of this Kingdom; he sways his scepter, and does his will among the children of men, among saints and among sinners, and brings forth results to suit his purpose among kingdoms and nations and empires, that all may redound to his glory and to the perfection of his work.

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, pg.30

The Mormon God is a man who lived the same kind of life we live and he sinned while working his way to godhood. The Christian God is a spirit who created the universe but doesn't live in it. He has always been God, was never a man and never sinned.

Just more evidence that the LDS is NOT a Christian denomination.

Some Thought-Provoking Articles

If you read the linked articles, you can come to no other conclusion than that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and the LDS is NOT a Christian denomination (I.e., it is a convoluted cult).

Oftentimes, it’s what they don’t say

What does the word “Christ” mean?

The LDS New Testament is full of lies!!!!

The Mormons don’t believe in the biblical Trinity, so:

Why is the Trinity in the Book of Mormon?

Why is the Trinity in the Doctrine & Covenants?

For all their claims to be Christian, the LDS does not believe in the God of Scripture.

Besides claiming that Noah is the angel Gabriel, the LDS claims that Adam is Michael the archangel. The problem is that angels and humans are two different creations: man cannot become an angel!! Adam was never noted in the Bible as a priest, let alone a high priest!

Wait a minute—I thought Adam was God, who had sex with Mary to produce a body for Jesus. Wait another minute—so Adam is a “son of God?” The LDS Adam is quite a convoluted person!

Why Did the Nephites Speak Greek?

Amusing to me is that the LDS still struggles with polygamy. If God ordered it, why did they stop—why did they not disobey the law of the land?

Along those lines, we have The Changing God of Mormonism.

The temple oaths are nothing more than signs and oaths from the Freemasonry cult.

But the LDS says that the earth was created for temple endowments—so how come there were no such things until aft Joe Smith invented them?

The Bible was never meant for today?!?!?

How did Joe Smith really get his priesthood?

Mormons say we don’t need God! Of course they also say there are multiple gods and people on other planets!

So, LDS members, doesn’t any of this make you think just a wee bit that there is a problem with your religion, that it doesn’t make a bit of sense?