Sunday, May 6, 2018

Did They Really Say That?

All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.

Documentary History of the Church, Vol.2, chap.27, pg 380. Prophecy given at the Kirkland Temple, January 21, 1836. Given to Joseph due to his concern about his brother Alvin who died before the priesthood was restored and had not been baptized. The solution given later was baptizing for the dead.

The Bible plainly says that our works have nothing to do with earning salvation (Eph. 2:8-9, et al), but that they are the outworking of our salvation. Nothing in scripture says that one will be saved after death based on the possibility that they would have accepted the Gospel had they lived.  In fact, Hebrews 9:27 says quite plainly, “…it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.” There is no second chance to hear the gospel and be baptized; once a person dies, he is immediately subject to judgment.

The lies of the Mormon church lead people to hell.



The Bible plainly says that our works have nothing to do with earning salvation (Eph. 2:8-9, et al)
You are correct only if the Bible can be summarized wit that one verse. Sorry.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


Did you notice the "et al" after the verse citation? If a doctrine is stated plainly in one passage, does there really need to be more?

How about Romans 10:9--absolutely no hint of works being needed.

Faith in Christ alone is what saves us, no extra works, just faith in his payment for our sins. Try reading the following:
Isa. 64:6
Acts 10:43
Acts 16:31
Rom. 1:16
Rom. 3:22, 25
Rom. 4:4-5
Rom. 11:6
1 Cor. 15:2 cf 1:17
Gal. 3:22
Eph 2:16
Philippians 3:9
Titus 3:5

Just for starters.

What is 100% certain is they having faith in a false Jesus and a man-god who lives on another planet will not save you.

Anonymous said...

If faith is all we need, then we do not even need repentance and confession, let alone baptism! Some may say these are part of faith, but the Bible lists them separately from faith (Rom. 10:9,10).

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

When we say "Faith" there is the object of our faith. And that faith is in Christ. One must first recognize their need for a savior, which means they recognize that they are a sinner and repent of that sin. Repentance means agreeing with God about your sin (call it confession of you will). THAT is when you place your faith in the work of Christ.

And baptism is not required for salvation. If it was, then the thief on the cross wouldn't be with Christ.

Anonymous said...

If "Repentance means (minimally) agreeing with God about your sin" and you declare that as faith, then faith amounts to sleeping in the filth of your ever increasing disobedience. This willful blindness of the ongoing wreck of ones life brings no genuine appreciation, let alone "faith in the work of Christ".

You also say "baptism is not required for salvation. If it was (sic. were), then the thief on the cross wouldn't be with Christ." It is nonsense to suppose a mortal never having the opportunity of the cleansing of Christ would be denied entrance into the kingdom for the lack of it.

Anonymous said...

Intrigued. If you object to the premise that Christ (premortal Jehovah) lives on a planet, who is your God now and where does It live? Suggesting It lives outside of Its creation, what does that PLACE look like?

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


I didn't say repentance is faith. Read my comment again so as to not raise a straw man.

And I have no idea what your last paragraph has to do with baptism. But it is NOT nonsense to say one who has never accepted Christ for salvation will be denied entrance to the kingdom. Everyone on earth has the opportunity to accept or deny the salvation God offers. Once one dies, the chance is gone. Hebrews 9:27

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Anonymous, 2nd comment.

Assuming you are the same Anonymous as the previous, why do you remain anonymous?

Jesus is not the premortal Jehovah (YAHWEH), since Jehovah is God the Father and Jesus is God the Son. God is outside of his creation and is a spirit, as the Bible so states. We have no idea what the abode of God looks like nor are we told.

If you want to comment on my articles, please stick to the topic of the article.

Anonymous said...

Glad you make a distinction between GOD THE FATHER and GOD THE SON.
In directing my comment back to the original points of your post, as a convert and HP in the LDS Church, I began my posts anonymously because initially there is some tedium otherwise. Additionally, your evangelical brothers generally avoid a productive exchange with me.

You err in supposing the LDS believe that people are saved by works. Christ's atonement is a GIFT that creates a change in heart if genuinely accepted. Further, to reject a doctrinal point because it is not endorsed in a particular Bible to your satisfaction produces a hobbled faith, especially when other errors are embraced. In short, there is much you claim we believe that we do not.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


2 Nephi 25: for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do

Once you say grace is there only "after all we can do," you've placed works in the utmost position. I could spend a very long time demonstrating that LDS theology teaches works for salvation, but you know that is true and are being disingenuous to claim otherwise.

Everything on this blog which is a claim of LDS doctrinal teachings is 100% accurate. I don't address what individual Mormons believe because that is impossible to know without discussing with the individual. But everything I address is LDS teachings.


In the purest sense, the works of righteousness which a person performs—ordinances of salvation and deeds of Christian service—are necessary but are insufficient to lead to salvation. No matter what a man may do in this life, his works will not save him: he will always fall short and thus be "an unprofitable servant" (Mosiah 2:21) without the grace or divine assistance of God. Indeed, it is only after a person has so performed a lifetime of works and faithfulness—only after he has come to deny himself of all ungodliness and every worldly lust—that the grace of God, that spiritual increment of power, is efficacious. In the language of Moroni: "Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ" (Moroni 10:32).

It appears from your assertions that those who believe that making the effort to deny themselves of unrighteous behavior are only to be denied salvation.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


Let's see: you defend your heretical belief system by quoting the Book of Mormon, which is an invention of Joseph Smith with absolutely no value to anyone. On the other hand, I have demonstrated from the Bible, the true WORD of God, that your position is wrong.

Nothing a Mormon can do will earn any points at all before God. The LDS is a man-made cult based on lies from the very beginning, as I have proven over and over again on this blog.

Quit trying to defend the indefensible.


Quoting you, "If you want to comment on articles, please stick to the topic of the article." And, "Comments which are mostly or only ad hominem attacks will not be published." I am having some difficulty knowing what approved conversation is.

The notion that the Gospel of Jesus Christ (LDS) is "based on lies from the very beginning" would be deeply insulting to me if I didn't know of the considerable error you have made. Where I do not not agree with you doctrinally, I would not ever suppose you to be a liar.

You have stated that nothing can be gained in appealing to God's favor through what we do. Is that true, as well, for those things we do meant to lose God's favor? Or, is there a profusion of text in your Bible that identifies an impartial God? Besides, doesn't God provide blessings in some rational manner?

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


The primary rule is to stick to the topic, which in this case is about works vs faith for salvation. Anonymous immediately went off on a tangent about the identity of God and where he lives and that’s why I commented about sticking to the topic.

If you don’t understand the issue about not posting comments which are mostly ad hominem attacks, then I can’t help you. Ad hominem attacks are not arguments or discussion. And, by the way, posting facts is not an ad hominem attack.

It doesn’t matter to me that you are insulted by the facts. The facts are that Joseph Smith invented Mormonism, the Book of Mormon is a fabrication written by Smith, all of his prophecies were lies, the whole polygamy issue was originated in Smith’s adultery, etc, etc, etc. I prove the lies of the LDS over and over and over again on this blog. There is absolutely no error in any article posted on this blog. If you find one, then demonstrate where the error is rather than just making an assertion.

Nothing a Mormon can do will earn favor with God because Mormons do not worship the God of the Bible. Mormons can not lose favor with God because they’ve never had it to begin with! God gives no favor or blessings to idolaters.

Now, this conversation is over because it is not germane to the topic. If you want to continue discussing the Mormon faith, you can email me and I will be more than happy to demonstrate conclusively that the LDS is a false belief system.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


You don't seem to understand that I said this conversation is over. You are not getting any more comments posted.